Below is the responses issued to me in light of two FOI requests seeking to gain some insight into the Government’s rationale for the Mother and Baby Home redress scheme. The requests were made on 21 October 2022. They were narrowed down as one requests was deemed by the Department to be “the Department stated that state is “too broad and would cause a substantial and unreasonable disruption to the work of our unit” and the other too costly in terms of search and retrieval.
The revised requests were worded as follows:
FOI-0142: All records concerning the following matters in relation to the preparation of the Mother and Baby Institutions Payment Scheme Bill 2022:
1. the requirement for eligibility for a general payment: that a person be resident as a child in a relevant institution for at least 180 days.
2. the requirement for eligibility for a medical card: that a person who was resident as a mother or a child, or both, in an institution listed in Schedule 1 for at least 180 days
3. Correspondence regarding Schedule 1 (inclusion of institutions)
4. Correspondence regarding “boarding out”/foster care
FOI-0144: All records/communications to, from, and created by the Interdepartmental Group on the following matters in relation to the development of the Mother and Baby Institutions Payment Scheme.
1. the requirement for eligibility for a general payment that a person be resident as a child in a relevant institution for at least 180 days.
2. the requirement for eligibility for a medical card: that a person who was resident as a mother or a child, or both, in an institution listed in Schedule 1 for at least 180 days
3. Correspondence regarding Schedule 1 (inclusion of institutions)
4. Correspondence regarding “boarding out”/foster care
The time period for this request is 12 January 2021 to 26 May 2021 (conclusion of the IDC
process).
I received a response to to the FOI requests on 12 December. A deposit in support of expected fees to be charged was refunded. Virtually all of the substantive documents were refused under Sec 28 (Meetings of Government), Sec 29 (Deliberations of FOI Bodies) and Sec 31 (1)(a) (Legal Professional Privilege. The schedules for both FOI’s are included below:
FOI 0142 Schedule:
- (5th September 2022) Email: Updated observations and instructions DCEDIY to DCEDIY + 2 Attachments: (1) 20220905- Outstanding Instructions on Payment Scheme Bill, (2)MBIBill12Aug22LMG
Refuse Section 29: Deliberations of FOI bodies
2. (5th September 2022) Email: RE: MBI Bill (File 2022/1230) DCEDIY to OPC + 2 Attachments: (1) 20220905- Outstanding Instructions on Payment Scheme Bill, (2)MBIBill12Aug22LMG
Refuse Section 29: Deliberations of FOI bodies
3. (13th September 2022) Email: Background Policy Papers DCEDIY to OPC + 5 Attachments: (1) 20220905_Final-Policy-position-on- penalties_for_offences; (2) 20220905-Final_Policy-and-
operational-approach-Double-Recovery; (3) 20220905-Final-
Policy-position-on-assessment-of-affidavits-statutory-
declarations; (4) 20220905-Final-Policy-position-on-Pelletstown-
St-Kevin’s-Institution; (5) 20220905-Final-Policy-position-on-the-
treatment-of-temporary-absences
Refuse Section 29: Deliberations of FOI bodies
4. (13th September 2022) Email: RE: Background Policy Papers DCEDIY to OPC + 2 Attachments: (1) 20220905- Outstanding Instructions on Payment Scheme Bill; (2) 20221209_Additional_Instruction_OPC_Temporary_Absences
Refuse Section 29: Deliberations of FOI bodies
5. (15th September 2022) Email: Further updates on instructions to OPC for MBIPS Bill DCEDIY to DCEDIY RRS Unit + Attachment: 20221209_Additional_Instruction_OPC_Temporary_Absences
Refuse Section 29: Deliberations of FOI bodies
6. (27th September 2022) Email: Draft RIA and JOC Recommendations DCEDIY to DCEDIY + 2 Attachments: (1)20220920 JCCEDIY PLS Recommendations
table on MBIPS Bill (2) 20220815_Draft_RIA_MBIPS_Bill_ Update
Refuse Section 28: Meetings of Government
7. (28th September 2022) Email: RE: Mother and Baby Institutions Payment Scheme Bill 2022 OPC to DCEDIY
Refuse Section 29: Deliberations of FOI bodies
8. (30th September 2022) Email: Submission DCYA 00525-22 “Memo for Government and Draft eSubmissions DCEDIY to DCEDIY + 4 attachments: (1) MFG on Payment Scheme Bill_eSubmission, (2) JOCDEDIY_PLS_recommendations_on_MBIPS_Bill, (3) RIA_MBIPS_Bill, (4) MOTHER AND BABY INSTITUTIONS PAYMENT SCHEME BILL 2022
Refuse Section 28: Meetings of Government
FOI 0144 Schedule of Records
Schedule of Records for_ Conall Ó Fatharta_: Summary of Decision Making
- (19/01/2021) IDG RRS Terms of Reference – Grant
- (04/02/2021) IDG proposed approach to work – Grant
- (24/02/2021) Correspondence: Invitation to members of IDG re. meeting – Grant
- (24/02/2021) Draft discussion paper on Scope
Refused: Section 29. (1) Deliberations of FOI bodies &
Section 31(1)(a): Legal Professional Privilege
5. (25/02/2021) RRS IDG Second meeting minutes
Available online: https://assets.gov.ie/206088/ba6a0cd9-041c-4c09-b8e4-a1b6cdba5317.pdfhttps://assets.gov.ie/204592/4414655a-2caa-4d63-bb62-b8d1fb929485.pdf
6. (25/02/2021) RRS IDG Draft Chapter 1
Refused: Section 29. (1) Deliberations of FOI bodies
7. (03/03/2021) Correspondence: DPER officials to DCEDIY officials
Refused: Section 29. (1) Deliberations of FOI bodies
8. (17 04/03/2021) Working Paper on Mother and Baby Homes Redress Scheme and Recommendation of Commission
Refused: Section 29. (1) Deliberations of FOI bodies & Section 31(1)(a): Legal Professional Privilege
9. (10/03/2021) Correspondence: Launch of Restorative Recognition Scheme
Consultation
Grant
10. (10/03/2021) Call for Submissions on a Restorative Recognition Scheme
for the Former Residents of the Mother and Baby Homes and County
Homes
Grant
11 . (09/04/2021) Correspondence: DPER officials to DCEDIY officials
Refused: Section 29. (1) Deliberations of FOI bodies
12. (09/04/2021) Correspondence: DPER officials to DCEDIY officials
Refused: Section 29. (1) Deliberations of FOI bodies
13. (24/03/2021) IDG Draft Report chapter 1-3
Refused: Section 29. (1) Deliberations of FOI bodies
14. (20/04/2021) Note on IHREC Advisory Paper
Refused: Section 29. (1) Deliberations of FOI bodies
15. (26/04/2021) Draft Scoping Paper on Enhanced Medical Cards
Refused: Section 29. (1) Deliberations of FOI bodies
16. (28/04/2021) Discussion paper on Scheme Design
Refused: Section 29. (1) Deliberations of FOI bodies
17. (29/04/2021) Options paper on Payment Design
Refused: Section 29. (1) Deliberations of FOI bodies
18. (10/05/2021) Correspondence from officials in DPER to officials in DCEDIY
Refused: Section 29. (1) Deliberations of FOI bodies
19. (17/05/2021) A Consultation with Survivors of Mother and Baby homes and County homes OAK final report
Available online:
https://assets.gov.ie/204592/4414655a-2caa-4d63-bb62-b8d1fb929485.pdf
20. (24/05/2021) IDG Draft Report Chapter 2
Refused: Section 29. (1) Deliberations of FOI bodies
21. (24/05/2021) IDG Draft Report Chapter 3
Refused: Section 29. (1) Deliberations of FOI bodies
22. (26/05/2021) IDG Draft Report Chapter 5
Refused: Section 29. (1) Deliberations of FOI bodies
I appealed the above decisions on 24 December 2022. I received the result of the appeal on 19 January, 2023 which was to uphold the original decision. I reproduce the wording of that decision below.
FOI 0142 APPEAL DECISION:
Dear Mr Ó Fátharta,
I refer to the appeal which you made under the Freedom of Information Acts 2014.
I am a more senior member of staff in DCEDIY than the original decision-maker in this case. I have decided today, 19 January, to affirm the original decision made in relation to your request. This review of your request is an entirely new and separate decision, and is explained as such below.
Your original request, sought access to the following records:
All records concerning the following matters in relation to the preparation of the Mother and Baby Institutions Payment Scheme Bill 2022:
- the requirement for eligibility for a general payment: that a person be resident as a
child in a relevant institution for at least 180 days.
- the requirement for eligibility for a medical card: that a person who was resident as
a mother or a child, or both, in an institution listed in Schedule 1 for at least 180 days
- Correspondence regarding Schedule 1 (inclusion of institutions)
- Correspondence regarding “boarding out”/foster care
The time period for this request is 1st November 2021 to 30th September 2022 In arriving at this decision I have had regard to the original request the records which were located as part of that request and the appeal letter which you submitted by email in this regard.
I enclose for your attention a schedule of these records, this schedule summaries my findings and refers you to the latter part of this letter for a further explanation.
Having regard to the aforementioned I have decided to affirm the decision made by the original decision maker in relation to your request and I have enclosed again for your attention a copy of the relevant sections of the Act which this decision relies on.
I have taken considerable time to consider the points raised in your appeal request and I deal with each of them in turn below quoting the point raised by you in italics and my response below it.
1). The request related to records relating to the preparation of the Mother and Baby Institutions Payment Scheme Bill 2022. That Bill was approved by Government and was published on 17 October. While the legislation is moving through the Dail, the request sought records in relation to the preparation of the Bill – a process that ceased when the Bill was approved by the Government and published. Therefore, I argue that this does not apply.
- I do not share your view that the preparation of the Mother and Baby Institution Payment Scheme Bill concluded when the Government approved the Bill. Government approval of the Bill, while a critical staging post, is one step and the commencement of a process whereby the Bill moves through a number of further important stages to enactment. There is ongoing deliberation and amendments occurring throughout this process until the Bill becomes law. Therefore, it is my opinion that the deliberative process in relation to the Bill is not ceased, it is ongoing and will continue until the Bill becomes law.
2) The public interest test is the strongest such test in the Act – it must be shown that the granting of the request would be contrary to the public interest. Therefore the onus is on the Department to show why the release of these records is contrary to the public interest.
The decision maker stated that “releasing these documents at this time may create confusion in the public domain and would not benefit survivors”. The OIC is definitive on this issue. The Department is obliged to outline how this conclusion has been reached and it is also clear that it is open to a public body to provide explanatory material when they release records.
2. It is my view that the decision-maker outlined valid reasons why he felt that releasing the records would be contrary to the public interest. The points you raise centre around the need to demonstrate how this may be so, grounded in OIC guidance publicly available on their website. Therefore, I will endeavor to explain the ‘how’ below.
Premature release of policy deliberations into the public domain, carries significant risk to policy decision-making processes, particularly in areas that are highly contentious. The Mother and Baby Institutions history is a traumatic one for survivors. Redress is always a contentious issue no matter what the arena. This Payment Scheme is long-awaited and is a particular focal point – and often flashpoint – for many with an interest in the broader topic. The Government is obliged to take account of a range of considerations in developing this Scheme and unfortunately some of these considerations may seem unpalatable or even cold to survivors individually and their
families in the context of their own unique and distressing experience. The
Government and officials developing the Scheme must be given the opportunity to undertake difficult discussions within a process that allows for the release of
information at an appropriate time. It is my view that this is not while the deliberative process is still very much ongoing and the Bill is still being debated in the Houses.
Were policy deliberations to be made public now, before the Bill becomes law, it is likely that the dialogue that would emerge could have significant negative
consequences, as assorted commentators consider, potentially out of context, the information released. The consequence of this for survivors and the public is that it would significantly divert the attention of the officials working to deliver the Scheme away from this important work and into a process of responding to the inevitable and voluminous parliamentary and media questions that would arise, with no benefit arising from this for survivors or the public who await this Scheme. The Bill has undergone pre-legislative scrutiny, benefitted from feedback from the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth and has been debated in the Dáil. There will be further opportunities for debate as it continues its passage through the Houses, and any information and clarification needed will be
provided by the Minister at each point in this process.
From our engagement activities over the years, it is clear that whilst some survivors and prospective applicants to the Scheme would wish to share or publicise their experiences, many more want no more talking, only action. We have consistently noted an increase in calls to our helpline, sometimes in magnitudes of several hundreds of percent each time we issue a press release about the Scheme or if there is a particular episode of media focus on it. While much of this information is very factual and routine, it nevertheless still serves to reopen wounds for many. Frequently, callers display real distress in those calls and our operators report ongoing trauma endured every time the profile of the Scheme is raised. We most genuinely do not to wish cause further potential trauma to survivors by releasing information prematurely on what are delicate and difficult discussions on complex matters.
This is why overall I consider it to be contrary to the public interest for our
deliberations around the scheme parameters to be revealed at this point in the
process while the Scheme and the enabling legislation are still very much in
development. I do not believe that it will assist survivors or indeed the public
generally. In fact, I consider it may only serve to cause unnecessary distress to an already vulnerable group.
3) The schedule indicates there is a memo for government in one record and this is exempt. However, Sec 28 also appears to have been applied to internal
emails/discussions and it’s difficult to see how those are exempt under this section. In addition, the decision maker has not specified which part of Section 28 he is reliant on. There are three sections and they are all quite different and, I would argue that some certainly do not apply i.e. that the record was created solely for use by a minister at a meeting of government (literally taken to Cabinet for that meeting). Given the lack of clarity and thoroughness around the use of this Section, I feel it needs to be revisited.
Your query here relates to record 6. It consists of an email introducing two attached papers which are to form Appendix 3 of the Government Memo. I am satisfied that Section 28. (1) (a) applies to the email of introduction. Because the attachments are materials not developed specifically for the purpose of the Government Memo and meeting, they should not have been refused under Section 28. Having reviewed the records it is my view that one of the attachments should have been refused under Section 29 (1), Deliberations of FOI Bodies, and I have amended the Schedule of Records accordingly. The second attachment which is the Regulatory Impact Assessment for the Scheme is now publically available and published to our website here gov.ie – Payment Scheme (www.gov.ie).
I hope that this commentary explains well my rationale to affirm the original decision.
Should you not be happy with this decision, you may make an ‘application for review’ of this decision to the Information Commissioner no later than 6 months from the date of this notification. There is a fee of €50. Payment should be made by way of bank draft, money order, postal order or personal cheque: crossed and made payable to the ‘Office of the Information Commissioner’.
FOI0144 APPEAL DECISION:
Dear Mr Ó Fátharta,
I refer to the appeal which you made under the Freedom of Information Acts 2014.
I am a more senior member of staff in DCEDIY than the original decision-maker in this case. I have decided today, 19 January, to affirm the original decision made in relation to your request. This review of your request is an entirely new and separate decision, and is explained as such below.
Your original request, sought access to the following records:
All records/communications to, from, and created by the Interdepartmental Group on the following matters in relation to the development of the Mother and Baby Institutions Payment Scheme.
- the requirement for eligibility for a general payment that a person be resident as a
child in a relevant institution for at least 180 days.
- the requirement for eligibility for a medical card: that a person who was resident as
a mother or a child, or both, in an institution listed in Schedule 1 for at least 180 days
- Correspondence regarding Schedule 1 (inclusion of institutions)
- Correspondence regarding “boarding out”/foster care
The time period for this request was 12 January 2021 to 26 May 2021 (conclusion of
the IDG process).
In arriving at this decision I have had regard to the original request the records which were located as part of that request and the appeal letter which you submitted by email in this regard.
I enclose for your attention a schedule of these records, this schedule summaries my findings and refers you to the latter part of this letter for a further explanation. Having regard to the aforementioned I have decided to affirm the decision made by the original decision maker in relation to your request and I have enclosed again for your attention a copy of the relevant sections of the Act which this decision relies on.
I have taken considerable time to consider the points raised in your appeal request and I deal with each of them in turn below quoting the point raised by you in italics and my response below it
Section 29: (a) The request regarded communications/records to, from, and created by the Interdepartmental Group on a set list of matters in relation to the development of the Mother and Baby Institutions Payment Scheme. I understand that the legislation setting up the Scheme is going through the Dáil. However, the request is seeking records relating to the IDG. Its last meetings date from May 2021 so it would seem to me that deliberative process does not apply here as its work has ceased. Could the Department, therefore, explain what deliberative process is still underway in relation to
my request?
It is the case that the Interdepartmental Group (IDG) is no longer in place and
therefore the point you raise is valid in that respect. However, the IDG was established to provide recommendations to Government around the development of the Payment Scheme, a process that will conclude with the launch of the Scheme later this year, post legislation enactment and administrative set-up. Whilst the report of the Group has been published, its deliberations have not been made public whilst the Scheme is still being designed. This design process includes the Bill, Commencement Orders,
Regulations, Guidelines and Standard Operating Procedures. It is my view that the wider IDG deliberations remain a central part of the ongoing deliberative process of DCEDIY, an FOI body, in the context of the continuing development of the Payment Scheme.
b) The public interest test is the strongest such test in the Act – it must be shown that the granting of the request would be contrary to the public interest. Therefore the onus is on the Department to show why the release of these records is contrary to the public interest. The decision maker stated that “releasing these documents at this time may create confusion in the public domain and would not benefit survivors”. The OIC is definitive on this issue. The Department is obliged to outline how this conclusion has been reached and it is also clear that it is open to a public body to provide explanatory material when they release records.
It is my view that the decision-maker outlined valid reasons why she felt that releasing the records would be contrary to the public interest. The points you raise centre around the need to demonstrate how this may be so, grounded in OIC guidance publicly available on their website. Therefore, I will endeavor to explain the ‘how’ below.
Premature release of policy deliberations into the public domain, carries significant risk to policy decision-making processes, particularly in areas that are highly contentious. The Mother and Baby Institutions history is a traumatic one for survivors. Redress is always a contentious issue no matter what the arena. This Payment Scheme is long- awaited and is a particular focal point – and often flashpoint – for many with an interest in the broader topic. The Government is obliged to take account of a range of considerations in developing this Scheme and unfortunately some of these considerations may seem unpalatable or even cold to survivors individually and their
families in the context of their own unique and distressing experience. The
Government and officials developing the Scheme must be given the opportunity to undertake difficult discussions within a process that allows for the release of
information at an appropriate time. It is my view that this is not while the deliberative process is still very much ongoing and the Bill is still being debated in the Houses.
Were policy deliberations to be made public now, before the Bill becomes law, it is likely that the dialogue that would emerge could have significant negative
consequences, as assorted commentators consider, potentially out of context, the information released. The consequence of this for survivors and the public is that it would significantly divert the attention of the officials working to deliver the Scheme away from this important work and into a process of responding to the inevitable and voluminous parliamentary and media questions that would arise, with no benefit arising from this for survivors or the public who await this Scheme. The Bill has undergone pre-legislative scrutiny, benefitted from feedback from the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth and has been debated in the Dáil. There will be further opportunities for debate as it continues its passage through the Houses, and any information and clarification needed will be
provided by the Minister at each point in this process.
From our engagement activities over the years, it is clear that whilst some survivors and prospective applicants to the Scheme would wish to share or publicise their experiences, many more want no more talking, only action. We have consistently noted an increase in calls to our helpline, sometimes in magnitudes of several hundreds of percent each time we issue a press release about the Scheme or if there is a particular episode of media focus on it. While much of this information is very factual and routine, it nevertheless still serves to reopen wounds for many. Frequently, callers display real distress in those calls and our operators report ongoing trauma endured every time the profile of the Scheme is raised. We most genuinely do not to wish cause further potential trauma to survivors by releasing information prematurely on what
are delicate and difficult discussions on complex matters.
This is why overall I consider it to be contrary to the public interest for our
deliberations around the scheme parameters to be revealed at this point in the
process while the Scheme and the enabling legislation are still very much in
development. I do not believe that it will assist survivors or indeed the public
generally. In fact, I consider it may only serve to cause unnecessary distress to an already vulnerable group.
Section 31. The single Section 31 exemption of material that is legally privileged. The record is a ‘Working Paper on Mother and Baby Homes Redress Scheme and
Recommendation of Commission’. On this basis, the record does not appear to be legal advice or be legally privileged in full. I would argue that, if it contains some legally privileged advice, these may be exempt, but that the remainder of the document is not.
This record (No. 8) was recorded in the Schedule as being refused under both Section 31 and Section 29. Having reviewed the record, I consider this refusal to be in order. I am of the view that the sections of the document not covered by professional legal privilege should be withheld as set out under section 29(1).
I hope that this commentary explains well my rationale to affirm the original decision.
You may make an ‘application for review’ of this decision to the Information
Commissioner no later than 6 months from the date of this notification. There is a fee of €50. Payment should be made by way of bank draft, money order, postal order or personal cheque: crossed and made payable to the ‘Office of the Information Commissioner’.